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bluesteel45
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schutzen match format
Sep 7th, 2005 at 10:49pm
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ok guys, i usually skirt around any controversial material on this board, and am still trying to, but just have a couple of questions regarding the basic format under which the sport of schutzen shooting is undertaken. i was talking to a fellow  b.p.c.r. sillouette shooter the other day and he told me he finally went to his first schutzen match. he did quite well, getting a first and second place in the two different matches he shot. however, he thought it somewhat unusual that all the matches were of the re-entry type and that there was no one and done , true 2,3, or 4 target  aggregate to go along with the re-entry matches being shot. most the matches that we've shot over the years had plenty of re-entry type targets, but the most 'vied for" title was agg winner where those 3 or 4 individual target could only be shot once. if the condition changed on you during that relay, then 'them's the breaks'. he told me that you could literally post a "sighter" target right beside your 'record' target and fire your shots at either [ in case there was a condition  change], until you had a "satisfactory' target. this , of course, had to be accomplished within the predetermined 45 minute time limit. if the target was not deemed worthy of placing in the match, it was merely discarded and reshot on another relay. i'm not saying this is wrong, i'm just wondering if this is the way most schutzen matches work...thanks........blue

  
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SCHUETZEN
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Re: schutzen match format
Reply #1 - Sep 8th, 2005 at 12:49am
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On the disscussions page scroll down to 2005 fall match at besson range for all the matches presented. Not all are re-entry!
  
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40_Rod
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Re: schutzen match format
Reply #2 - Sep 8th, 2005 at 9:34am
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In the early days of shuetzen shooting Most clubs had a limited number of targets to shoot at. The shooter would step to the line hand his score sheet to a scorer and shoot. When the score was indicated down range it was marked on the sheet the target was pasted and the next shooter moved to the line. All of this was rather time consuming and did not lend itself to re-entrys. 
Today we shoot on individual targets in relays alowing a shooter much more time to shoot. In addition there are other considerations. How many men would drive 3 to 8 hours to shoot 100 shots and then go home. To come up with enough matches to keep enterants shooting would take 10 different matches per day times the number of days the match is being held. Or everyone shoots a Hudson match in one day and goes home. 
Today we try to give the shooters in a match the best chance to perform at their potential. Does this lead to inflated scores? YES, but it also brings increased partisipation and raises more money in target sales for the sponsering clubs.

There is a movement spear headed by Steve Garby to return to the old rules for the Hudson match. All 100 shots must be made in one day, any miss is scored as a zero, and no sighter targets. This is ubdoubtaly a much tougher programe to shoot but it is not a programe that draws and incourages new shooters. 

40 Rod
  
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boats
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Re: schutzen match format
Reply #3 - Sep 8th, 2005 at 3:36pm
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Blue,

I came to Schutezen from BPCS and Modern Silouette.  I like it a lot mostly because it's totaly offhand and a single effort match. BPCS is very spotter dependent and a two man team is required to do well. High power too and Small bore while not essental a good spoter is an advantage. In Schuetzen the sighter target is your spotter.

The re-entrys are fun but I only shoot a couple to confirm my sights. I am one of those guys that only shoots the 100 shot Hudson and goes home.  It's single entry and to my mind a very good test of offhand skill. 

I think I am correct that in all matches your re-entry target is identified before shooting as is the sighter. You cannot enter a sighter target as a record.  When I shoot  re-entry I will stop putting holes in a target that has no chance to be in the running and go on to the next one. But thats the rule and all competitors can do the same.

Last Hudson I shot even though the match did not require it I used Steve Garbes rules. No sighters and all shots count. Out side the scoring rings was a zero even if on the paper. I think thats the best format and to tell you the truth it only cost me a few points compared to the sighter allowed and 100 holes in the paper counted rules.

I can't think of a outdoor match that does not offer the Hudson match.  Indoors Gallery seldom but the several clubs I shoot gallery in the winter have a agg and single entry match format as well as the re-entrys.

Another popular match is the King target with a closest to the center or heart of the target rule.  Single shot and single entry too.  It's generaly a fancy one and you take it home if won with all competitors holes named

At first I found the named matches confusing but once I figured it out found plenty of good competition. Give it a try.

Boats
  
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leadball
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Re: schutzen match format
Reply #4 - Sep 8th, 2005 at 4:04pm
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The Schuetzen matches I attend have both single entry and re-entry in both off-hand and Bench, but the re-entry matches are the most popular [targets bought] although I'm a fan of single- entry if we were to shoot only single entry I believe we would lose three quarters of our shooters. We are small in numbers and cannot afford to loose a shooter.
       IMO it does not matter what target we use [number of scoring rings etc.] the best shooter is still going to win, BUT I do wish we could all shoot at the same Schuetzen target, namely the ASSRA target since it is more or less the official Schuetzen target.   leadball
  
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PETE
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Re: schutzen match format
Reply #5 - Sep 8th, 2005 at 5:29pm
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Looks like this has been covered very well other than to say if you only like to shoot matches as single entry there's no reason you can't do the same for the re-entry ones. Our club has so many different matches I'd like to shoot it's seldom that I shoot the required targets more than once.

  I'm a fan of the single entry match to and that's how we hold all our WSU rule matches. Also everyone shoots that match on the same relay. Gets kind of humbling sometimes. But, as has been mentioned, no one wants to drive X number of miles just to shoot one or two matches. Plus re-entry is where a club makes money to pay for those cash awards or trophies they put out.

  I guess I'm not quite getting leadballs point. As far as I know if you shoot in a match under ASSRA or WSU rules you do shoot the same targets. The WSU targets just go out to the 10 ring and any shot outside the scoring rings is a miss, whereas the ASSRA rules allow you ten points if you're outside the scoring rings but still on the paper and you can keep shooting till you have ten shots on the target. Of course if your club isn't affliated with either, or want to shoot under their rules, then you might have to take pot-luck as far as targets, and rules of the match go.

PETE
  
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boats
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Re: schutzen match format
Reply #6 - Sep 9th, 2005 at 9:20am
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Pete

I shot the Thurmont Hudson match in August and self imposed used WSU rules. It cost me 20 points,

I don't think WSU rules are much disavantage.

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PETE
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Re: schutzen match format
Reply #7 - Sep 9th, 2005 at 11:30pm
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boats,

  You're probably a much better shot than most to. Or, at least better than I am.  Grin My goal is to keep them all in the bull Something I've only managed once this year....... during a WSU match to!

   In some regards....... target size especially.... WSU rules are actually an advantage, altho they wouldn't be if you shot WSU rules with ASSRA targets. Before we got our WSU targets I made up an overlay to at least be able to use as much of the ASSRA target as possible. Altho you don't get all the way out to the 10 ring on the sides there will be a little room left in the corners that will give you a miss.

  My problem is I like to leak a shot or two out of the scoring rings, and even tho you get 10 points under ASSRA rules the WSU target usually gives you two or three more points than that for the same shot placement.

PETE
  
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bluesteel45
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Re: schutzen match format
Reply #8 - Sep 15th, 2005 at 12:19am
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thanks guys. i guess you've all answered sufficiently. i wasn't trying to imply that you only shoot a three or four target agg and then quit.....not by a long shot!! [no pun intended]. i helped run enough shooting matches to know that reentry targets are where the money is for the sponsoring club. they always made up the bulk of our shooting matches. i just happen to like a format where the shooter sometime during the shooting day or two day period has to post 3 or 4 'one and done'  [ one relay at a time at the time of your choosing], aggregate targets and goes for broke, so to speak. it challenges you as a shooter to pick your relay and perform under pressure , not to mention the threat of a condition change. this gives you something to "hang your hat on' if you manage to eek out a victory over your shooting peers. Grin..blue
  
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