Hello, I'm new to Schuetzen and tried out my first one last weekend and had a lot of fun.  I used my two BCPR rifles (Ballard in 40-50SS and Shiloh Sharps in 45-70) in the "big bore iron sight" category.

If I understand correctly, I could enter into the "center fire" category, but I would then be competing with the smaller calibers.  I've thought about putting a scope on either rifle so I could try out the "center fire scoped" category.  I'll keep to the traditional categories, so I understand I need to use the Unertl/Targetspot type of scopes with external adjustments.

I've thought about installing a MVA 6X scope, so I could use my rifle for both Schuetzen and BPCR scoped competitions... but I"m not sure how much I'm sacrificing for the 200 yard bench rest matches by using a 6X versus a 12X or 24X... Any comments on that issue?  If there is a difference in shooter performance, then I may consider getting dedicated scopes for each type of competition and not try to settle for a compromise.  Any advice appreciated.  Thanks.

Vic

Vic,

  You are correct about the type of scopes needed for Traditional Rifle Class matches. But... That would only apply to WSU rules as they differentiate between Traditional and Open Class. ASSRA rules don't put any restrictions on what scope you can use. Of course, matches where you shoot might have specific rules on this that you should check out.

  I agree with what 40_Rod says. I use a 30x Lyman STS for bench shooting. As 40_Rod says the higher the magnification the more mirage will show up. But, for me, I like to see the mirage as well defined as possible and will even take my scope out of focus slightly in order to see it better.

  Not being into Shilouette shooting I believe that Unertl type scopes are not legal so if you want one scope to do both jobs you'll have to settle for the highest power scope you can get that is legal.

You will sacrifice some scoring ability with a 6x scope as vs any higher magnification, but not a lot. The thing to remember is "If you can't see it, you can't hit it!".

  Personally I'd say if you can afford it I'd go for three scopes, actually. You'll want to try your hand at offhand someday and about a 10x scope seems to work best for most people, altho I know people that use double that.

PETE

To point up what Boats said.... There is an excellent article in this months issue of The American Rifleman on optics and resolutions that would explain this in far more detail.

PETE

After everone reads the American Rifleman article we might discuss the article, I have my own take on the matter and was wondering how others feel about optics.  leadball

The average shooter [myself included] know less about optics than probably anyother aspect of the shooting game. Magnification is not all that important in a spotting scope, resolution is--would that statement be true.
      Back in the old days '50's" I would here shooters say that 12 or 16 power rifle scopes was all that was needed, IMO that may have been true in 1950 but it is not true today. I take my lead from the best shooters, who use 36X scopes, if it looks bigger then its probably eaiser to hit. I don't know a good shooter who went back to a 10 power scope after using a 36.    leadball
PS--waiting on a good 80 power scope

leadball,

  You bet! Resolution is everything. I think this was brought out very well in the article.

  As I get it resolution is the ability to distinguish objects at a distance at a given magnification. Magnification helps in this regard, but only to a certain extent. The front lense of your scope has to be large enuf, and have the proper quality, and coatings on it to gather as much lite as possible. This is why you pay more for the same thing on the better quality scopes, and anything else that has a lense system in it.

  I thought the example the author gave between his buddies 8x30(?) and his 10x50 was a little poor. Naturally his binoculars would be better given the same quality lense system. What you need to do is compare apples to apples..... in this case it would be both being 8x30's or 10x50's. Then you could make a direct comarison.

  A high quality Swarovski or Leica 8x30 will beat an average quality 10x50 as far as being able to resolve an object at a distance.

  The other thing to remember is there is a lot of hype when it comes to selling any binoculor or spotting scope. Some make the claim that the exit (what you put your eye to) lense is, say, 7 or 8 mm. They use this to try and get you to believe their system is better than the others. Of course nothing is mentioned of this in the ads. It's just a figure thrown out for those who don't know any better. The problem is that your eye pupil can only expand to 5 mm, so any more light exiting the system can't be used by your eyes.

  What is needed is an objective (front) lense as large as possible and of the best quality glass. It is this amount of light that is used by the magnification of the system to help you in resolving an object. This is pointed out by the fact that even the cheapest scopes will let you see an object well toward dark.

  Also, the larger the objective lense the more magnifcation you can use to help you resolve an object. Ever notice how huge the camera lenses are that sports photographers use? They need these large lenses to gather enuf lite so they can use a higher magnification, and to keep the f-stops reasonable in order to capture fast moving action.

  As shooters & hunters our real problem is that we just can't carry around a Mt. Palomar telescope with us.  So everything becomes a tradeoff and is usually limited by what we can afford to pay.

  You're right about shooters of the past using lower powered scopes than we use today. Schuetzen shooters like Pope thought that a 6x or 8x scope was more than adequate for offhand shooting. But, the bench shooters back then used the highest power they could get that would do the job. Part of the problem back then was the quality of the lenses. Back when 3/4", 1", or 1 1/4" objective lenses were the norm you just couldn't push them to 36x. As the power went up in these scopes things got dimmer till you reached a point where it affected your ability to see the target clearly enuf. You can easily check this out for yourself by taking a 1 1/4" Unertl and compare it with a 2 1/2" model of the same power. The latter will be noticeably brighter.

PETE