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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) 38-55 14" vs. 16" twist (Read 12280 times)
bluesteel45
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38-55 14" vs. 16" twist
Aug 11th, 2005 at 9:14pm
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thinking of doing a schuetzen in 38-55 cal. although 1:14" and 1:15"is pretty standard for most .38 cal applications, how does 1;16 work as far as schuetzen distances are concerned. extra long bullets don't seem to be mandatory here so i would think the slightly slower rate of twist shouldn't be too much of a liability. any thoughts appreciated....blue
  
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AndyZ
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Re: 38-55 14" vs. 16" twist
Reply #1 - Aug 11th, 2005 at 9:24pm
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Blue:        1 in 16 works fine for me in the 38-55.  My bullet is 347 gr and is 1.4" long and it does tip ever so slightly at 200.  The load is 16.5 gr of 4759 and it will give all the accuracy you need.  With a shorter, lighter bullet there should be no sign of any tipping.  Good luck with your project.
     andy  Z
  
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PETE
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Re: 38-55 14" vs. 16" twist
Reply #2 - Aug 12th, 2005 at 2:11pm
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blue,

  I have an original High Wall with the original 1-18" twist and at Schuetzen distances I use the original 255 gr. wgt. bullet. I do have a .325 gr. Brooks bullet that will shoot very well at 100 yds. but won't hold up at 200.

  So I would imagine that a 1-16" twist would do all you need, altho if building a new rifle I think I'd go with the 1-14" just in case I wanted to use it for Shilouette, or longer ranges.

PETE
  
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Jim_Borton
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Re: 38-55 14" vs. 16" twist
Reply #3 - Aug 12th, 2005 at 5:38pm
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Now wait a minute AndyZ, Just what do u know! Everyone knows Rugers will not shoot!
Yea right, just someone forgot to tell Andy!!!!!!
  

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AndyZ
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Re: 38-55 14" vs. 16" twist
Reply #4 - Aug 12th, 2005 at 9:28pm
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     Big Jim:     You are absolutly right.  Those Rugers don't shoot worth a darn!@!!!!!!
    Are you ready for Labor Day?????             andy
  
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Re: 38-55 14" vs. 16" twist
Reply #5 - Aug 13th, 2005 at 9:47am
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Yes Andy up here waiting on you!!!
  

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bluesteel45
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Re: 38-55 14" vs. 16" twist
Reply #6 - Sep 26th, 2005 at 9:57pm
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guys, forgive my naievety, but what particular bullet weight range seems to dominate in schutzen where say 38-55 is concerned??? i was told recently that 280 to 300 grains of bullet weight were most popular, but i don't really know this to be true. i would think that a well designed bullet  in .38 cal of around 300 grains should perform well with a 16 in twist. i have sillouette rifles, this is just for purely schutzen. is the 325 to 340 grain weight measurably better??? it would have a better b.c.. a little help here for the newbie schutzen guy...thanks...blue
  
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38-55
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Re: 38-55 14" vs. 16" twist
Reply #7 - Sep 27th, 2005 at 4:51am
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My most favorite caliber, not perfect, but able to perform double duty in both the Schutzen and Silhouette sports.  I only have experience with a 1-15 twist barrel.  I have never shot in a Schutzen match with my rifle, there is none in Pa, wish there was.  I have spent many hours with it, this rifle would be competitive in the Schutzen sport.  Use two bullets, a 310 Hoch tappered bullet.  Which is breech seated with 16.5 grs. of 4759, this is a very accurate combination.  For Silhouette, a 338 gr. Paul Jones Creedmoor.  This is with 3F blackpowder.  I have shot this combination in an NRA F class match at 600 yds.  All the holes were round with no sign of instalbility.  A great combination for an old guy having fun.
  
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PETE
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Re: 38-55 14" vs. 16" twist
Reply #8 - Sep 27th, 2005 at 4:15pm
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38-55,

  No Schuetzen shooting in PA? The ASSRA Journal lists two clubs there. One contact person lives in Jenkintown, and the other in Myerstown. Have you checked them out? Possibly they are no longer shooting Schuetzen, but if one of those towns is near you I'll be happy to post names and phone numbers for you.

  And, I'm sure Barry Darr (ol7groove on here), who lives there, can point you to something.

PETE
  
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boats
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Re: 38-55 14" vs. 16" twist
Reply #9 - Sep 29th, 2005 at 4:19pm
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38/55.

I shoot two CPA's with several barrels. One is a 38/55 with  1/14 twist. It shoots 300 bullets very well.  I have never tried longer so cannot say, most people advise the faster twist for longer bullets.   

When I shot BPCS with it did knock rams over with the 300 gr. Now I only use it for Schuetzen though.   In my opinion there is no reason to use heavy bullets for paper targets. I always felt if you go over 300 you are probably better off with a .40 caliber. Generaly the rifle with the least recoil is the best for paper  I prefer the 32/40 for Schuetzen but like the 38/55 when using black powder. 

There is a very good match just a few miles south of Gettysburg in Thurmont MD.  Full distance and program. Next match and the last for the year is Oct 14-15-16

Pennsylvania has 2 clubs that shoot gallery over the winter. Lebanon Pa shoots rimfire gallery,  Southhampton PA (just north of Philly) has gallery too and runs a Squib centerfire  as well as rimfire. In my 32/40 I shoot a 125 gr bullet with Unique for sub sonic which is required on that range. 

They also run some special Millitary rifle matches. Great place for squibs in a Trapdoor. I don't have the dates yet but generaly Southampton starts in December while Lebanon is in January I think both go through March

Lebanon's March match often coincides with the Baltimore gun show and makes the drive well worthwhile for me.

I have shot them all and can recomend them as very good matches.  I used to hear about matches around Cape May NJ which is not very far from Eastern PA but cannot say for sure.

If you want any details email me

Boats
  
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bluesteel45
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Re: 38-55 14" vs. 16" twist
Reply #10 - Nov 7th, 2005 at 10:40pm
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boats, in your experience, hoe does the 38-55 stack up against the 32-40 at the schutzen matches in thurmont??? do you see many, or are most guys shooting the lighter stuff??????? just curious...blue
  
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MerwinBray
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Re: 38-55 14" vs. 16" twist
Reply #11 - Nov 9th, 2005 at 5:32pm
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Blue,
I have a 38-55 and shoot at that match, well, sort of. I haven't been able to make it shoot yet. It has a 14 twist and I have only tried light bullets with no good results. The schutzen game is still kind of new to me. I have been to the Thurmont match a few times but that is it. I also don't ever get any practice time which is completey disapointing. That said, I can't recall any one else using the 38-55 there. the 32 miller, 32-40, 33-40? pope range of bullets seem popular. One of the other shooters at the last match has the popular Hoch 310 gr tapered mould and has recently sent me a box of them. (If he is reading this I cannot thank you enough). Now I need to find a powder charge. I looked in the last issue of BPCN in the match results section and equipment list. It looks like 4227 is popular for the 38-55. I figure that to be a good place to begin gleaning load data. If anyone else reading out there has advice we would love to hear it. Jon
  
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PETE
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Re: 38-55 14" vs. 16" twist
Reply #12 - Nov 9th, 2005 at 6:23pm
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Jon,

  That 1-14" twist in your rifle is gonna require you to use a bullet of over 300 grs. to get best accuracy. Not to say a lighter bullet won't work well enuf for offhand shooting. See my latest post in "chicken" loads to show some of the problems with using light bullets in twists meant for heavier bullets.

  The old timers basically used bullets weighing in the 300 to 325 range for target work in this cal., but used the standard Win. 1-18" twist. My High Wall .38/55 has this twist and it starts to show some slight tipping at 200 yds. with a 325 gr. Brooks spitzer bullet. But at Schuetzen distances this isn't a problem.

  Your .38/55 is considered a bit to much for todays Schuetzen shooter, and the majority of the old timers also felt so to, by moving to the .32 cal.'s. This is not to say your .38 is not competitive, because it is. In fact it was THE cal. to use in Schuetzen for a good number of years. Under adverse conditions you'll find it gives you better scores. But if you shoot both a .32 and your .38 by the end of the day you'll feel the difference. Probably the main reason the .32's are favored today.

  4227 is a very good powder for the .38/55 and for the above bullet of mine 18.2 grs. works for me. Gives a MV of 1368 fps and SD's around 11. This of course is breech seating the bullet. Those tapered Hoch bullets you've got should be ideal for this.

PETE
  
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MerwinBray
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Re: 38-55 14" vs. 16" twist
Reply #13 - Nov 10th, 2005 at 10:39am
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Pete,
When I started building this rifle I wanted to build a BPCR gun. I was using the theory of the lightest bullet with lowest fatigue for that discipline. I was reading alot about guys having luck shooting 38-55s and doing well knocking over even the rams. As things go I never make it to any of the BRCR matches for many different reasons. I had already ordered the barrel and had it installed when the reallity of not getting to the matches hit me. However; I had met the Thurmont Schuetzenmiester, Chris, a few years back at the Fairfax Ram Bash, a 200 meter offhand event. ( I used to live in Manassas, can't get any closer to a match than that ). He had always told me of his schuetzen matches and emailed me the schedules. The 38-55 seemed like it may work. The Irony is when I ordered my barrel in the first place they accidentally sent me a 32 cal. i sent it back because i thought I wanted the 38 for BRCR. If I had it to do over i'd have kept the 32.
So I made my way out to his thurmont match and figured out I didn't know a thing! But that is the fun of it. Trying to get better and learn. Of course I HAD to get a 22 to use as well,a martini. And am now lining a Ballard in 22.
I do hope to make it to the BPCR and I do have a couple of 45-70 rollers and trapdoors. I think i will leave the Stevens 38-55 as a schuetzen gun and keep working on it. All the work has been done by very good smiths. I need to find my load and then work on my abilities. i think i got off topic here and rambled a bit, I will do that! Thaks again. Jon
  
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Schuetzendave
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Re: 38-55 14" vs. 16" twist
Reply #14 - Nov 10th, 2005 at 3:59pm
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The 32 caliber is the most prevalent among us Schuetzen shooters by a factor of over 9:1.  The 38-55 recoil is too much trade off in the precision shooting game compared to the .321 or 8mm.

The preferred set up now is the 32 Miller with some still using the 200 to 210 grain bullets in 1:14 twist (ussually RKS) barrels.

However over the last ten years there has been a continued trend to using 225 to 235 grain 32-40 bullets in tighter 1:11.5 twist barrels. Most of the top end shooters have gone this route.

This has resulted in improved wind handling charachtersistics if you are interested in deciding which part of a 3/4 inch bullseye you wish to dissect at 100 yards.

If you want that perfect match of bullet and barrel, Ron at RKS Barrels can always steer you to the best choice at 403-631-2405

For an added challenge Schuetzen shooters are making up a variety of .25 calibers these days. You should ask Ron about his great results trying a 32 Miller chamber behind a breach seated .25. 

Best of luck with your project.
  
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