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Normal Topic max pressure for vintage 44 1/2 action? (Read 5100 times)
oldsingleshots
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max pressure for vintage 44 1/2 action?
Jun 12th, 2005 at 11:58pm
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Does anyone have any published pressure info for the Stevens 44 1/2 actions?

Thanks.
  
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FITZ
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Re: max pressure for vintage 44 1/2 action?
Reply #1 - Jun 13th, 2005 at 8:22pm
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Do not know of any published figures. But I have read in more than one publication that Ned Roberts developed the .257 Roberts using a Stevens 44 1/2 Action.  And this caliber can develop some pressures pushing 50,000 PSI. Now to be sure I would expect it to be a neatly bushed or original high pressure small tip firing pin. I do knw that there were more than a couple of variances in Stevens firing pin styles and designs in the 44 1/2. To be safe I would limit loads to 
30,000 LBS or less. I do know that CPA 44 1/2 actions are routinely built in modern high pressure calibers. But interestingly CPA has two heat treat conditions. The color cased action is sold in reproduction black
powder calibers. The actions that are ordered for modern smokeless high pressure loadings are a different heat treat and come with a blued finish. Come to think of it, call Paul Shuttleworth at CPA and ask him. He is a long time collector of Stevens Rifles and would know better than anyone if there are published figures for the original 44 1/2 actions. HTH Regards, FITZ.
  

FITZ
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oldsingleshots
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Re: max pressure for vintage 44 1/2 action?
Reply #2 - Jun 15th, 2005 at 10:38am
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Fitz - Thanks for the info.

Maybe I should shed some light on what prompted my question.  This may not be the correct forum for this - but I know there are those of you who have taken vintage single shots (those that are strong enough for smokeless) and have upgraded/converted etc...

I have a vintage 44 1/2 that has been turned into a 2 barrel rifle (original .32-40 and now .17 Ackley Hornet).  CPA did the re-barrel (I will also add that Paul and Gail have been wonderful to work with as I trouble shoot this issue).  A #2 half oct/rnd barrel with a .172 hole in it is a conversation piece at the range.

During my load development for the 17 AH, I have been experiencing "splashing" of the primer metal back into the fireing pin hole.  This splashing is occuring at well below start load data that I have from Ackley and various modern sources.  When the block is openned it scrapes this metal off and it typically falls into the action or at times will make it's way into the chamber  Shocked

I've even installed a new breach block and firing pin from CPA (maybe original was too worn, etc...) - checking headspace again - splashing is still occuring.  I've tried CCI and Remington BR primers - splashing occurs with both.  2 different powders - splashing with both.  There are no other signs of excess pressure evident on the brass - it extracts easily, etc..  Brass was fireformed in this chamber and are only shot in this rifle.

Backing the load to nearly half the start load - no splashing.  I've slowly worked my way back up to where signs that splashing may occur with the next .2gr increment of powder.  This is where I'm currently at - no splashing of primer metal - but far cry from what this cart's potential is with good/safe/published load data.  I understand that most load data will be for modern bolt rilfes - but I also know that this action is capable of handling pressures produced by this cartridge - as the parent cartridge is the 22 Hornet.

Is this something that I would expect to see with the free floating firing pin design that's part of these 44 1/2 actions?  It appears that the splashing occurs under the firing pin - as the firing pin hole is a bit of an oval shape (not oversize) - since the firing pin is at an upward angle from the hammer to the chamber.

Any input appreciated.

oldsingleshots.
  
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leadball
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Re: max pressure for vintage 44 1/2 action?
Reply #3 - Jun 15th, 2005 at 11:04am
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oldsingleshots;
                  I'm aware of your problem--I solved the problem by rounding-off the bottom of the firing pin--the upward slant of the pin pushes excess metal that then must be cut off as the breech-block travels down.
                If you want to try this solution, Please advise Paul or Gail, they may not agree. Also, primers with soft cups will cause this problem.     leadball
  
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oldsingleshots
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Re: max pressure for vintage 44 1/2 action?
Reply #4 - Jun 15th, 2005 at 1:02pm
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leadball - 

The primer "soft cup" was also a thought I had as well.  As I understand Remington 7 1/2 BR primers are made specifically to address this as they are also used for .17 Remington to prevent some primer piercing that had occured early on with that caliber.  I would think that they would be "a"-ok with the .17 Ackley Hornet as well.  Splashing is still occuring with this primer.

CPA sent 2 new firing pins - one to try in my existing block and the other was already seated in the new block that they also sent.  Both of the new firing pins appear very rounded - with no angles to speak of.   I'll touch base with Paul/Gail today for follow-up.

Curious if there was anything else that can be done to either the firing pin, firing pin hole, as I've read elsewhere of modifications to these areas to allow modern cart's/pressure's to be used.  Then again, I would not think the little .17 AH would require special attention.

oldsingleshots.



  
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FITZ
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Re: max pressure for vintage 44 1/2 action?
Reply #5 - Jun 15th, 2005 at 9:56pm
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I have had little experience with the 44 1/2 action so cannot advise. I do however have a close friend that bought an original 44 1/2 in Schuetzen configuration with three barrels. One an original Stevens 32-40 rebored to 33-40. The second a 28-30 by Brezine. The third is a .222 Rem. Rimmed caliber with its own Breech block and extractor. He has shot it extensively in the .222 Rimmed caliber with no problems and no sign of pressure. I have only glanced at the Breech block when it was apart and saw nothing to indicate that any special effort had been taken for the .222 Caliber.  Is your firing pin tip large? The early ones were big, nearly .100 in diameter. If by any chance you had one of the early blocks with the large pin tip that would create the gap on the underside where the pin exits the Block at quite an angle. How stiff is the Hammer spring? If the Firing Pin is not solidly supported through the pressure peak it will back off from the primer giving the primer the opportunity to flow. This has even happened in modern Bolt Action rifles with light firing pins. I would look very hard at the firing pin and make sure it is well supported when the hammer is down and is not some kind of floating pin arrangement sometimes considered safer by some people. HTH, Regards FITZ.
  

FITZ
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JDSteele
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Re: max pressure for vintage 44 1/2 action?
Reply #6 - Jun 19th, 2005 at 10:29pm
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What FITZ said, he knows what he's talking about.
Good luck, Joe
  
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