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Dale53
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Need a new bullet mould
Jan 18th, 2005 at 11:42am
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I had a friend contact me today. He does not have a computer. He IS an ASSRA member.

He is building a 7mm (.284 bore diameter) rifle. He will be breech seating. His barrel has a 1/11" twist. He needs a competive cast bullet mould for 200 yard use.

Barry, are you listening?

I am open to suggestions as to mould maker. My friend does not want to wait a year for a mould. He wishes to be ready to go as soon as a slightly warmer day is at hand (it was zero here this morning). I am afraid that he is a bit like me. We are so old that we don't even buy green bananas Grin

Any suggestions will be appreciated.

Dale53
  
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ole7groove
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Re: Need a new bullet mould
Reply #1 - Jan 18th, 2005 at 3:02pm
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Hello Dale,

As a retired bullet moldmaker its hard for me to understand the long leadtime for a custom bullet mold. Since I'm currently not making molds myself all I can do is offer my suggestions for an effecient bullet design. As you may know I've spent the last summer performing external and internal ballistics tests on breechseated plain base bullets with sophisticated equipment at 100 and 200 yards. Wind deflection with .28 (7mm)caliber has typically been greater than that of larger calibers. Nose form factor has been shown to be one of the biggest factors in reducing WD (my tests) and secondly the heaviest bullet that can be stabilized at the ranges you will be shooting, in this case 100 to 200 yards. Let me don my flak jacket before I make my suggestions---------- Roll Eyes 

I don't know how to post photo on this site - but if someone tells me how I will post dimensioned photo. My suggested bullet for your 1 in 11" twist 28(7mm) barrel would be a spitzer bullet 1.060 long weighing about 185 grains (1 in 25 alloy) and as cast diameter (7mm) of .2855+or-.0010. The accurate and stable velocity should be 1550 - 1650fs range. I would estimate that WD would be about 30% less with the spizer bullet at 200 yards than the more conventional flatnose 130 grain bullet. 

As an old barrelmaker I do understand the frustration of having to wait more than a couple weeks for a mold, that was my motivation to start making my own molds in the first place. I may be in a position to start making molds again, but I can not define a time frame at present. 

Regards,
Barry



« Last Edit: Jan 18th, 2005 at 3:18pm by »  
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mes
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Re: Need a new bullet mould
Reply #2 - Jan 18th, 2005 at 3:14pm
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Barry:  How much of that 30% difference in wind drift would be due to the weight difference.
mes
  

Martin Stenback
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40_Rod
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Re: Need a new bullet mould
Reply #3 - Jan 18th, 2005 at 5:12pm
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Dale

Try Steve Brooks. I have used him in the past and both moulds that he did for me were perfect. He can be reached at:
                Steve Brooke
                1610 Dunn Avenue
                Walkerville, MT  59701
                (406) 782 - 5114
His turn around time is about a month. 

40 Rod
  
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EdStutz
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Re: Need a new bullet mould
Reply #4 - Jan 18th, 2005 at 6:29pm
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Dale,

I second getting a Steve Brooks mold, am happy with the one I got from him late summer just under 3 weeks. Am also happy with my Hoch mold, he delivered within his projected time frame which was 12 to 16 weeks. Don't mind the turn around time if he says up front. Still waiting for my swage dies. He now says will be done the end of the month, that will be 11 months on a 4 month promise date. Another maker said 6 months and almost 6 monyhs to the day I got a letter saying he wasn't making molds anymore.
Any body want the names i will pass them on.

Damn Dale it's too cold in the shop!

Ed
  
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PETE
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Re: Need a new bullet mould
Reply #5 - Jan 18th, 2005 at 10:32pm
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Well, unless Steve Brooks has changed from what his ads say he only makes moulds in calibers .35 and over. I wish he would go smaller tho as the two moulds of his I have are excellent and both delivered in under 2 weeks.

PETE
  
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Bob_Allen
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Re: Need a new bullet mould
Reply #6 - Jan 18th, 2005 at 11:00pm
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Could you tell me just what 7mm case this is?
                                     Thanks B.A.
  
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Dale53
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Re: Need a new bullet mould
Reply #7 - Jan 19th, 2005 at 12:18am
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Thank all of you for your replies. Barry, I especially thank you for the technical information (we'll get together personally and discuss your bullet findings at a later date - maybe at the Spring Match).

Bob,
The case in question is the .28/30/120 Stevens.

Dale53
  
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ole7groove
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Re: Need a new bullet mould
Reply #8 - Jan 19th, 2005 at 3:31am
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mes,

I have compared the actual velocity loses of many styles of bullets at 100 and 200 yards, to best answer your question I will let you compare the 200 yd velocities of some various weight and nose form 32 cal bullets. The following tests was the averages of 30 shots for each bullet style.

For this comparison the load was adjusted to stabilize the longest bullet and to acheive same muzzle velocity for each bullet (1557 approx.) of 5 tested in a 1 in 16 twist 32 caliber barrel.
WD (Wind deflection) inches = 10mph 90degree crosswind

1.-188.5 grn factory style flatnose:
Muzzle vel=1564fs    200yd vel=1188fs    WD= 11.10"

2.-191.0 grn tapered Pope style nose:
Muzzle vel=1557fs    200yd vel=1175fs     WD= 12.40"

3.-189.0 grn 6cal ogive spitzer nose:
Muzzle vel=1563fs    200yd vel=1237fs      WD= 9.25"

4.-209.0 grn 5cal ogive spitzer nose:
Muzzle vel=1558fs    200yd vel=1225fs      WD= 9.60"

5.-214.5 grn 5cal ogive spitzer nose:
Muzzle vel=1559fs    200yd vel=1238fs       WD= 9.14"

Chronograph = Oehler43PBL  Skyscreen III's at muzzle and 200yds. 



If you compare the velocities of bullet test #3 and #5 both had similar MV's  and almost the same 200yd velocities, the slightly more streamlined 189 grn spitzer has the same 200yd velocity as the 25grn heavier slightly less streamlined spitzer. These tests were done on the same day with fairly constant temperature and barometric pressure. So I suppose the answer to your question is, a 30% reduction in wind deflection depends on the effeciency of the bullet design to which you would add the weight. I hope you find my explaination clear.

Regards,
Barry


« Last Edit: Jan 19th, 2005 at 3:49am by »  
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PETE
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Re: Need a new bullet mould
Reply #9 - Jan 19th, 2005 at 8:54am
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Dale53,

 Why didn't you say it was a .28/30? Smiley

 If you can find an Ideal 285221, or a similar shaped bullet, of 120 grs., that's the old standard bullet shape & wgt. for the .28/30 and it's 1-14 twist.

 I would imagine the above or slightly heavier bullet would work very well in the 1-11 twist you mention. I would imagine quite a bit heavier, but my experience is only with the standard twist.

The .28's big problem is it's very sensitive to the wind, but if your friend is a good wind reader it should be competitive. On a reasonable day my .28/30 will easily hold the 25 ring at 200.

PETE
  
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Dale53
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Re: Need a new bullet mould
Reply #10 - Jan 19th, 2005 at 11:40am
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Thanks good people. I will see that my friend gets this information as soon as possible.

It is also quite interesting to me!

Dale53
  
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waterman
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Re: Need a new bullet mould
Reply #11 - Jan 19th, 2005 at 7:20pm
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In the dim past, Lyman would make bullets like 287221 in any weight (depending on the number of bands).  When you ordered one and did not specify the weight, they sent the mould for the heaviest one.  I made that mistake almost 40 years ago.  So I have a 287221 casting about 175 grains that has been sitting on the shelf since 1966.

I cast up one batch of bullets, but my Stevens 44 #47 in 28-30 would not stabilize anything that long.  You could see all those grease grooves as the bullet went through the target sideways.

I also tried some bullets from this mould in one of those 7x57 rimless rollers.  The front band required that the bullet be seated very deeply if the cartridge was to be chambered.  I had a round nosed 287 mould and used that instead.

My mould collector friend tells me that my 287221 long bullet is a super collectors item, so I'm not anxious to sell (but I might trade).  And I am willing to cast up a batch for the chap to try.

Also, I thought the old guys who shot 28-30s at 200 yards used 135-to 140 grain bullets.
  
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Dale53
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Re: Need a new bullet mould
Reply #12 - Jan 21st, 2005 at 12:36am
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Waterman;
Thank you for your interest. I'll pass that information along.

Dale53
  
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Long_Rifle_101
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Re: Need a new bullet mould
Reply #13 - Jan 24th, 2005 at 5:32pm
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Hello Dale, I found a 7mm mould, lube sizer, and top punch in my stuff. The sizer is a saeco # 30285. The saeco dual mould is a #073. The top punch is a # 28. Let me know if you can use it.  Long Rifle
  
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Dale53
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Re: Need a new bullet mould
Reply #14 - Jan 26th, 2005 at 10:47am
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Long Rifle;
I just saw this this A.M. I have left a message for my friend. If he is interested, I'll have him call you.

You might write me direct at:

rmcgee6@cinci.rr.com

and give me your telephone and U.S. Post Office information and I will have him call you if he is interested. He does not have a computer.

Dale53
  
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