Joeb,
Quote:Or does it mean that you can see the 25 rings when they are cut out and put on a white background?
Obviously you're not familiar with the ASSRA targets. So..... The iron sight, 200 yd., 25 ring, is white spot 1 1/2" in diam. and is in the center of a red/black bull 12" (approx.) in diam.
In fact IIRC on all ASSRA targets the 25 ring is white, so I'm not sure how you can talk like you do later in this post and not know this?
When this target is posted at 200 yds. I can distinguish this white spot from the surrounding red/black bull. From discussing this with the guys in our club it appears that about 1/2 can pick this out and the rest can't. The 100 yd. offhand targets 25 ring is a 3/4" white spot set in a 6" red/black bull.
Quote:This was a fine size for shooting offhand or bench with irons or scope. Rhis target has a 7" 10 ring and 3" X ring, and offhand targets in the high 190's were frequently shot with scope or irons.
And... If you'll look at the size of the ASSRA targets that I mention above you'll see these sizes for the bull have been considered pretty much the standard for over a 100 yrs.
I would think that almost a perfect score would have to be shot at 200 yds. these days in order to keep in the running. 30 yrs. ago when I was a lowly Marksman in High Power I could shoot into the low 190's. That's a pretty big target!
Quote:I was told several times that the scope is not a great deal more accurate than the irons,
To a certain extent I think this is true, but a great deal depends on two things. The distance and what your eyes can resolve. As I mentioned before I don't feel especially handicapped with irons against a scope at 100 yds. because I can "shade" the sights well enuf to keep up with the rapidly changing conditions we normally experience at our range. At 200 yds. tho I can't resolve things fine enuf to be able to change the position of my sights the 1/8" or 1/4" sometimes necessary.
I freely admit there are people out there who are far better at resolution than I am. The two people you mentioned who shot 250's on the ASSRA target are certainly two of them.
I'll have to ask around to see if any of the better shooters in our club have ever shot a 250 with irons at 200 yds. in registered competition. I wouldn't bet on it, but know of one guy who has shot a few with a scope. My personal best is a 244 with irons and a 247 with scope at 200 yds., in competition.
Quote: I can't see-resolve?-the 1.65" 10 ring on my 5 1/2" black target, but I can hit in that 10 ring.
Neither can I if the center is the same color as the rest of the bull. The reason you can hit it tho is that with a good set of appertures, front & rear, your resolving power goes up by a good percentage (rember the finger trick), and you are easily able to center those appertures up around the bigger bull.
As you know, the 100 yd. Small Bore Rifle target is all black, including the 1" X ring. Using a CMP legal AR-15 I can keep all shots inside or touching the X ring. So even tho I can't see the X ring it's easy enuf to hit with fairly decent sights.
Quote: I think if more people shot irons bench we'd see small groups and high scores and that irons are almost as good as scopes.
Naturally! The thing that's keeping it from happening is for the same reason we don't see much in the way of offhand competition. Age!..... IIRC, I think someone posted quite a while ago that the average ASSRA members age was in the low 60's. That reduces down to physical conditioning, and eyesight as the causes of not as much interest in irons over scopes, and lack of interest in offhand.
PETE