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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) switch barrel actions (Read 10020 times)
Quisto56
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switch barrel actions
Oct 7th, 2004 at 1:30pm
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What are the available actions  that have the ability to have more than one barrel  easily installed.  I am not interested in the  contender type  break over actions  but  rolling or falling blocks  only    In a previous post  it was mentioned ther were some  besides the  CPA  and  I wondered what they were and were they any good

Quisto56
  
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Long_Rifle_101
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Re: switch barrel actions
Reply #1 - Oct 7th, 2004 at 7:07pm
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Hello Quisto56, I think of guns with barrels that can be interchanged without tools to be take-down guns. Guns that  require some type of tools to remove their barrels I refer to
as switch-barrel. Over the last few years switch barrels have
become popular in my area and I have a few that include a Hi-Wall, Lo-Wall, Stevens 044 1/2, Ruger #1, along with some bolt action rifles. These barrels are installed with about 20 inch Lbs torque. Each action is trued and barrels are carefuly threaded to make up easily and do not become loose with use. It makes sense to use switch barrels and be able to make use of an action and stock that usualy is built to your needs.  Good Luck Long Rifle
54
  
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QuestionableMaynard8130
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Re: switch barrel actions
Reply #2 - Oct 7th, 2004 at 7:19pm
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I just picked up a CPA, primarially because of the multi-barrel multi-calibre capability Roll Eyes.  It'll let me experiment with different calibres without having to invest in a whole new gun Grin.  DWS
  

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JDSteele
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Re: switch barrel actions
Reply #3 - Oct 7th, 2004 at 9:05pm
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That's a good distinction you made between takedown and switch-barrel rifles. Any rifle can become a switch-barrel but some may be more trouble than they're worth. I have a high wall 22LR/CF Schuetzen wannabe with the flat spring & it's a pain to switch because of having to disassemble/reassemble the mainspring & forearm. OTOH a Martini or Borchardt (with alteration) is dead simple to switch, as easy as the Stevens. A roller is also easy to make into a takedown or switch-barrel, as is basically any rifle that doesn't have anything complicated hung in front of the action. A Hagn would be very difficult, for example, because of the bottom receiver extension. The Winchester front receiver extension lip that surrounds the forearm tenon makes the Win action awkward to use but can be overcome by various methods.

Some compatible-head-size cartridges include:

45-70/90, 40-65, 38-56 WCF or wildcat, 33 WCF or wildcat, 7mm/45-70 wildcat (almost identical to the 284 Win with a rim), 6mm/45-70 wildcat (almost identical to the 6mm-284 with a rim)(these could be cut with the 284 & 6-284 reamers by a GOOD smith)

38-55, 30-30, 7-30 Waters, 25-35, 219 Zipper, 225 Win (225 Win rim is smaller but the body is 30-30 size)

40-70 Sharps Straight, 30-40 Krag, 25 Krag, 6mm Krag (wildcat cut with a 240 Weatherby reamer run in short)

40-90 SS, 40-85 Ballard, 444 Marlin, 405 WCF (I believe), 9.3x74R, 8x57JR, 7x65R, 7x57R, 6.5x57R, 5.6x57R, 356 Win, 307 Win, 257 Roberts Rimmed, 6mm Rem Rimmed, etc. I was shooting a 6mm Rem Rimmed on my high wall test mule back in the '70s (Norma 8x57JR brass).

Many of the Krag/'06 families will interchange with the same extractor much of the time. For instance I have an original high wall extractor marked 40-70 and 40-90, the 40-70 is the Krag head size and the 40-90 is the '06 size but Win made the same extractor to fit both.
ttfn, Joe
  
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Quisto56
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Re: switch barrel actions
Reply #4 - Oct 7th, 2004 at 11:11pm
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who makes a new borchardt action  and who could do the work  and is the borchardt really any stronger than the CPA.  The double set triggers of the CPA seem like it would be a  real plus in long range varmint shooting . 

Quisto56
  
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joeb33050
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Re: switch barrel actions
Reply #5 - Oct 8th, 2004 at 6:17am
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In my opinion, the Maynard is the ultimate solution to the multi-barrel problem-if there is one. There's a web site for a guy making new Maynards in NY?, PA?.
The modern day and vastly less expensive solution is the NEF Handi Rifle, with barrels that are available in many calibers-and that may be rechambered to many others. 
These represent an elegant solution.
joe b.
  
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JDSteele
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Re: switch barrel actions
Reply #6 - Oct 8th, 2004 at 7:07pm
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Quisto, IMO the Borchardt is probably twice as strong as the CPA due to the design alone, regardless of materials & workmanship. I own a Borchardt 300 Mag and I personally wouldn't chamber a CPA for anything even close to that class. For sheer brute strength it's hard to beat the Borchardt.

However (and there's always a however), the Borchardt doesn't have a well-designed trigger and also its gas-handling ability is somewhat limited IMO. My 300 Mag has a bushed firing pin with well-timed retractor cams and also has two gas escape holes in the top of the breechblock, as well as an externally-adjustable sear engagement alteration.

My only recommendation for a gunsmith would be to contact one of the Guild smiths who specializes in single shot metalwork or either of the two other names mentioned here. I have no personal experience with any currently-practicing Guild SS smith but have been well satisfied with John King's work on a few small jobs. Of course the best Guild SS smith of them all is Bob Snapp, but he's retired from all but very special projects (read very expensive). I've never personally examined the work of Steve Durren but judging by his articles in the Journal he's obviously very competent indeed IMO.

Most general gunsmiths aren't competent to do any serious work on any single shot action, so be very careful here. I may take some flames for this but that's my opinion. I've had to correct poor smithing on almost all the single shot rifles I've ever owned that had been 'gunsmithed' before, the only exceptions were a CC Johnson Borchardt and an Eric Johnson Ballard. That amounts to a few dozen POS's for each of the two jewels mentioned, NOT a good testimonial for single-shot gunsmithing in general.

FWIW a friend (& ASSRA member) has a CPA in 22LR & is unhappy with it. Seems there's a big ole burr turned up on the edge of the chamber, probably due to dry-firing. I made him a chamber ironing tool & hopefully the problem is temporarily alleviated now, but my point is that it shouldn't have been a problem in the first place if the rifle had been made properly.

You may say that my friend shouldn't have been dry-firing his rimfire. I say that if the rifle had been made properly in the beginning, there would have been absolutely no chance of burring the chamber. Anyone who makes a rimfire rifle costing that kind of money should at least take the trouble to ensure that the firing pin is dimensioned properly, which would automatically eliminate ANY chance of it contacting the chamber edge.

This is an interesting subject, maybe worth more development. In the meantime I'll say that I own many many different rimfire rifles and can dry-fire all of them perfectly safely without any thought of damage, because they're all good quality designs and made properly.

My friend's CPA was not made properly, period, end of discussion. YMMV though, many folks say they're happy with CPA.

BTW it wouldn't be difficult to machine a rimfire barrel blank off-center so that the CF extractor would extract the RF case. This would be a doable option if using the Krag or '06 Rimmed head sizes but would not work with the 45-70 or 30-30 head sizes unless using a rimless type spring-loaded extractor. This offset-bore barrel would mean no extractor or block changes, only a simple barrel change.

Simply ensure that the rimfire bore line is parallel to the barrel centerline, offset at both breech and muzzle by ~0.120", and adjust the shoulder so that the bore is offset toward the extractor when tight. The miniscule windage angle associated with the offset would have no appreciable affect upon the zero IMO, and if it becomes a concern then the muzzle end could be offset less than the breech which would reduce the windage angle accordingly. Another interesting subject.
ttfn, Joe
  
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First_Shirt
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Re: switch barrel actions
Reply #7 - Oct 10th, 2004 at 11:47am
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Hey Joe,

I'm getting ready to convert a Stevens Model 44 from .25 Rimfire to .22 LR.  How would you handle the firing pin alterations?  Any design details concerning the firing pin itself you'd care to share?

Thanks,
Greg
  
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singelshotman
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Re: switch barrel actions
Reply #8 - Oct 10th, 2004 at 5:03pm
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Get a copy of Vickory's "Advanced Gunsmithing" first printed in 1940-has TONS of infor about 22RF firing pins and troubles with them-a whole chapter in fact mostly to firing pins.
  
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hst
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Re: switch barrel actions
Reply #9 - Oct 10th, 2004 at 5:39pm
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Yo, Shirt:

I gots Vickery's book. I will puruse it when I have a spare moment, and can bring it to E'Ham should I actually 
remember.

Glenn
  
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Dale53
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Re: switch barrel actions
Reply #10 - Oct 10th, 2004 at 6:47pm
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First Shirt;
I have a Stevens 44 that I converted from .25 rimfire to .22 rimfire. It was not necessary to do ANYTHIING to the firing pin. The .25 and .22 are close enough that it won't generally be necessary to change the firing pin.

I took the extractor to a welder to build it up, and when the barrel was fitted, I had the extractor "chambered" at the same time the chamber rim recess was cut (after it was reshaped with a file).

I have shot several cases of .22's in that Stevens and it has been a VERY satisfactory alteration. Incidentally, I used a Shilen barrel with a Winchester 52 profile. It was necessary to turn a bit off the breech end of the barrel so it would not "overlap" the action sides. It amounted to turning a straight section about 11" long. This had a secondary effect of a nice straight section to use for the scope mounts of your choice. When the barrel was polished the transition of the straight with the tapered area is hardly noticeable.

Steven 44's make great .22's in my estimation. The rocking motion when the breech is closed easily seats a rimfire in a full match chamber.

Dale53
  
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First_Shirt
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Re: switch barrel actions
Reply #11 - Oct 10th, 2004 at 10:13pm
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Thanks Dale.  I thought I might get lucky, just eyeballing the face of the breechblock it looked as if I might not have to move the firing pin very much, if any.  I have in hand a #3 weight octagon Green Mountain barrel that is going on this rifle.  I'm stocking it in a very pretty piece of fiddleback Bastogne, in a "sort-of-Schoyen" pattern.

Glenn, I haven't run across that particular tome, and would like to see it, if you can 'member to bring it along.  I got the spacers made for our "try stock" today, just need the mailman to show up with the donor stock!

Greg
  
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JDSteele
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Re: switch barrel actions
Reply #12 - Oct 11th, 2004 at 12:25pm
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Greg, I can't offer much help that's specific to the Stevens but I agree with Dale about the rocking motion seating the cartridge into a Match chamber being A Good Thing.

I generally fit a RF firing pin to protrude between 0.035" & 0.040", seldom less and NEVER more. More protrusion ensures burring the chamber upon dry-firing since the nominal RF rim thickness is ~0.042", and a protrusion less than about 0.025" will give ignition troubles. My favorite low wall when just completed had 0.040" protrusion but I noticed a slight shininess of the chamber edge after several hundred rounds and so reduced the protrusion to 0.035" with no further concern. This may have been due to tolerance stacking resulting in the pin tip just barely contacting the chamber during dry-firing or it may have been due to the pin battering the cartridge rim into the chamber edge, but in any case I shoot for 0.035" protrusion these days.

BTW it's a fact that 0.035" is plenty of protrusion to fire any CF round as well as RFs. Tests several years ago by Benchrest shooters showed that a protrusion of 0.020"-0.030" gave best accuracy, with a pin nose diameter as small as ~0.030" also. Exact details elude what My Bride jokingly calls my memory but it was published in either Precision Shooting or the CBA Journal or similar.

A RF-only pin nose should have a rectangular shape, flat on the end & with all edges stoned smooth, but of course a switch-barrel rifle should have a pin nose with a hemispherical shape like any CF-only pin. If CPA would ensure their firing pins protrude no more than 0.040" then everything would be copacetic, no burring & no ignition problems.

Vickery's Advanced Gunsmithing is a heckuva good book, one of the best. And every one of us should own a copy of Frank de Haas' Single Shot Rifles & Actions.

Please be advised that I have seen several broken Winchester RF firing pins (cause unknown) but I still dry-fire my Wins regularly. A simple annealing job on the firing pin will prevent breakage & give much peace of mind. Any well-made rifle should be capable of dry-firing hundreds of thousands of times without concern as long as the firing pin or striker isn't too hard, but all too frequently we find that the manufacturers don't anneal them properly or even at all.

However I gotta confess that I'm chicken & so I always try to insert a fired case into the RF chamber before playing with it.
ttfn, Joe
  
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JDSteele
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Re: switch barrel actions
Reply #13 - Oct 11th, 2004 at 12:35pm
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Gotta add a caveat here. ALL repeat ALL Martini strikers should be annealed before dry-firing, and also should be magnafluxed to ensure no existing cracks. Sometimes one side of the striker is broken already, which means that if the other leg breaks when cocked then the striker will fall and any chambered cartridge will fire. This can take place without any human hand touching the rifle.

Please magnaflux your Martini strikers, anneal them and for preference don't ever dry-fire a Martini without a snap cap.
Good luck, Joe
  
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