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Green_Frog
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Fireforming
Jul 24th, 2004 at 8:26pm
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What I though I knew about fireforming seems to have proven inadequate.  I tried to fireform some .38-55 brass that had been sized down to .32-40 back out to .33-40 by shooting blank loads of black powder behind a case full of cream of wheat.  I guess I need a bullet up there to make the pressure go up, huh?  Suppose I took a .32-40 and fired it in the .33-40 chamber, other than the bullet rattling down the bore, would I be any the worse for wear?  I've got a couple of BP rounds loaded for one of my .32-40s, soooo...

The adventure continues!    Grin

GF
  
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Dale53
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Re: Fireforming
Reply #1 - Jul 25th, 2004 at 12:24am
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Charlie;
The 32/40's should fire form nicely with BP behind most any cast bullet. I guess that you could end up with some leading from gas cutting... but I rather doubt it. BP will probably bump up the bullet nicely.

The best way to insure good expansion would be to use a case full of black powder behind a breech seated bullet of the correct size. Heck, I would try the fixed .32/40. It will probably work well.

dale53
  
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DonH
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Re: Fireforming
Reply #2 - Jul 25th, 2004 at 6:05am
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I'm no expert but from my experience with .40-65 and many years of messing with .338-06, I believe I would neck the case up to .33 first before fireforming. With the latter, I neck up then fireform with a bullet seated over a mild load of powder. With .40-65, I fire a full load of black with my lead bullet or with (I believe) 12.0 gr of Bullseye, a toilet paper wad, then about 26 gr of cream of wheat, then another TP wad. The TP wad consists of 1/4 sheet tamped in the case with a pencil or dowel. The Bullseye/CoW method saves a bunch of bullets I sweated to make but is just short of the desired result. Obviously the amounts of powder/CoW would have to be adjusted for a smaller case.
I agree with Dale about a case full of black powder except I would neck up first then fire it behind a breech seated bullet. One time should do it. If you were just down the road I would run my Sinclair neck expander die with the tapered .33 mandrel over to you. It is actually intended for neck turning but a very tool to have around.

Don
  
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40_Rod
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Re: Fireforming
Reply #3 - Jul 25th, 2004 at 8:54am
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Green one no need to be blue. Bell the case mouth slightly so you get good contact when you push the case into the chamber. Use a full charge of black and breach seat a bullet a 33 if you have them, use a 32 if you bon't. The 32 should bump up pretty well just don't expect accuracy. You will have your cases in no time.

40 Rod
  
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marlinguy
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Re: Fireforming
Reply #4 - Jul 25th, 2004 at 3:22pm
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I've fire formed a number of cases for my various rifles. Cases that don't change a great deal dimensionally, often shoot with good accuracy. My 8.15x46 Aydt schuetzen rifle actually shoots reformed .30-30 cases as well while forming, as it does after they are formed.
I'd go with running the cases through the .33 dies, and seating a .33 bullet first, if I was doing this. They'll form right up, and you can compare them against the second loading for accuracy. 
Another option would be to run .38-55 cases through the .33 dies, as they will be very close, and probably wont hardly change after firing.
  
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Green_Frog
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Re: Fireforming
Reply #5 - Jul 25th, 2004 at 6:11pm
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Tried a couple of the .32-40 BP loads (full case, fixed ammo) last night - no joy.  Likewise the breech seated .33-40 in front of an unsized case with 13.2 of 4759 - still no joy.  Accuracy through the test firing of the 4759 looked most promising, though, so I will take out a couple of BP loads tomorrow evening, breech seat .33 cal bullets, and try again.  I guess that's why it's called experimenting!   Wink

Thanks to all for suggestions,
Charlie the Frog
  
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bullpuppy
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Re: Fireforming
Reply #6 - Nov 10th, 2004 at 5:42pm
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Can the 8.15x46 aydt schuetzen be rechambered for 38-55?
  
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PETE
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Re: Fireforming
Reply #7 - Nov 10th, 2004 at 10:06pm
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Bullpuppy,

 Not sure where you came up with this idea but the 8.15 is basically a .32 cal bullet (.315 - .320) and the .38/55 is a .375 - .380) diam. bullet. The reason for the large differences in bore diam. is due to manufacturing tolerances used by the old time gun makers.

 The only viable alternative to making your idea work would be to make a wildcat with a .38/55 case necked down to 8.15.

 Not being a gunsmith I wouldn't want to say whether you could re-barrel and chamber your Aydt to the .38/55.

PETE
  
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singleshot
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Re: Fireforming
Reply #8 - Nov 10th, 2004 at 10:46pm
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Yes it can be rechambered, but as Pete said it would still be a 32 caliber (nominal) barrel.  That could be recut.  Should it? In my opinion, NO!  It could be rebarreled to 38-55 easily however- just make SURE to retain the original barrel and wood.  It is worth much more in original condition!
  

Willis Gregory, aka singleshot
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bullpuppy
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Re: Fireforming
Reply #9 - Nov 11th, 2004 at 12:03am
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I ment to say can the 8.15x46 aydt schuetzen be rechambered for 32-40
  
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PETE
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Re: Fireforming
Reply #10 - Nov 11th, 2004 at 10:38am
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Bullpuppy,

  To answer your last message.... Yes you can rechamber the gun to .32/40 if the figures given in Ken Howells book are accurate. It appears as tho all dim.'s for the 8.15 are smaller than the .32/40.

  But as mentioned in my previous message the 8.15x46R groove diam. runs from approx. .315 - .320. Nominal being about .316 - .317. My own 8.15 is .315. Modern .32/40's have groove diam.'s of .321 - .322, with some of the old original Ballards being as small as .319.

  So, I would say that unless your barrel slugs to the large size you will need special loading dies and possibly a chambering reamer that will cut a chamber where your cartridge doesn't rattle around in it. Of course if you breech seat exclusively then there would be no problem as you could just get a bullet to fit the bore and use a straight .32/40 case. But, for offhand work most prefer fixed ammo, or to do it the way I'll describe later.

  Personally I would leave the gun "as is" and shoot 8.15's in it. The cases are easily formed from .30/30 cases, if you can't find them thru your dealer, and only need to be run thru the FL die. I've made mine out of .375 cases so as to take advantage of the thicker brass in order to tighten up a fairly loose chamber. This way I don't have to neck size to get a slip fit for the bullet when I'm shooting offhand. Just de & re-prime, throw the charge, and push the NEI stop ring bullet into the case to the stop ring and I'm ready to go.

  To top it all off the 8.15 gives just as good of accuracy as the .32/40.

PETE
  
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singleshot
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Re: Fireforming
Reply #11 - Nov 11th, 2004 at 9:59pm
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Pete and bullpuppy- The two cartridges are CLOSE in size, but the 8.15 is FATTER and has less body taper thgan the 32-40.  A 32-40 reamer will not clean up an 8.15 chamber!  Like I said - rebarrel and save the orignal barrel and wood, or just get the dies and shoot it as is.
  

Willis Gregory, aka singleshot
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PETE
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Re: Fireforming
Reply #12 - Nov 13th, 2004 at 8:51am
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Willis,

 Thanks for the clarification. I was just going by a hasty look at Ken Howell's book so didn't catch what you did.

 If it's the gun he mentioned in another post it doesn't have all it's parts, so I'm not sure even a rebarrel job would do any good. But, in any event, if he can find the parts, and the barrel is in good shape, I'd still shoot it as an 8.15.

PETE
  
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